Talk:Slavic dragon

Untitled

In Russia he is called as Zmey Gorinich, has three heads, is green, walks on two back paws, has small front paws, and spits fire. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Grigoryev (talk • contribs) 06:29, 12 May 2005 (UTC)

Yes, and Zmey in Russian means Snake, not Dragon. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 169.226.212.121 (talk • contribs) 15:54, 13 November 2005 (UTC)

In Bulgarian smok("смок") is kind of snake. I think its name comes from smucha("смуча") which means "to suck". To tell that somebody is a "smok" means that he drinks(swallows) too much. So smok is not unique. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.130.107.83 (talk • contribs) 16:19, 10 December 2005 (UTC)

"Змея" (Zmeya) in Russian means Snake indeed, but "Змей" (Zmey, masculine form of a word "Змея") in russian fairy tales allways means dragon-like creature: it can fly, it has many heads, it spits fire. Енин Арсений (talk) 18:29, 28 November 2012 (UTC)

Zilant

Hm, I think it's not correct to compare Tugarin Zmievich with Zilant. The first is a Slavic dragon named after Turks, the second is a Turkic dragon, and his Russian name is only a rendering of Tatar word 'Snake. In fact, Zilant is presented not in the culture of Russians, but in the culture of multinational people of Tatarstan, and can't be related to a Slavic dragon. especially it could't symbolize Turkic peoles, becose he probably symbolized Russians! :)--Untifler 15:56, 7 April 2006 (UTC)

The article on Zilant says that the dragon is a manifestation of a benevolent Turkic spirit (White Snake). That would be more believable, since the serpent motif is frequently seen among Turkic and Islamic nations. While in Russian mythology dragons and serpents are almost never positive, various Turkic nations extensively used serpents as their national and tribal symbol. --194.72.81.141 (talk) 13:13, 24 October 2008 (UTC)

In russian zmeja means snake, but zmei (male for of female zmeja) means dargon.

Nice image of Zmei Gorynych (more clearly seen dragon, than image on page):

http://img105.imageshack.us/img105/872/dragonudopm3.gif— Preceding unsigned comment added by 159.148.13.146 (talk) 15:20, 15 September 2006

Zmaj and azdaja

The description of the creature corresponds to azdaja, animal like being like lizard. Zmaj is human-like being which communicates with people and steals young girls according to Serbian mythology, and their children with those girls are heros. Zmajs were considered great lovers. When Zmajs are landing and arriving somewhere they are accompanied with flames, thunders and strong winds. It is intersting to note that in Old Testemony similar creatures are mentioned that are called sons of God. In the Bible they land on Earth and took human daughters as wifes and had children with them that were heros. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.198.225.192 (talk • contribs) 20:55, 16 April 2006 (UTC)

Remark: You should put the link to Milos Obilic here - he was the knight of the dragon order, it is a XIV century story, there is a literature/legends about the origin of Milos, as well as the artistic work. Moreover, it is on wikipedia, as well. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milos_Obilic — Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.60.77.215 (talk • contribs) 21:17, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

More accurately, zmaj is a dragon and is sometimes believed capable of taking human form, while not being a humanoid itself. Azdaha (archaic term) or azdaja (modern term) is of the same nature as dragon, but is a monster and a dreadful beast. While dragons in Western mythology are sometimes benevolent and sometimes malevolent, in Serbian mythology there is a division between zmaj (benevolent and highly intelligent dragon) and azdaja (malevolent dragon-like monster). Zmaj is always highly intelligent, has superhuman strength, is proficient in magic, is very old and has enormous knowledge, is very rich and possesses unimaginable amounts of gold and other precious things. It is also described as lustful for human women and capable of having offspring with them, and sometimes capable of taking human form. There were many legends about many great historical and/or mythical heroes that they were conceived by a dragon. On the other hand, the beast on St. George icon is an azdaja, and not a dragon. In Serbian, it is called 'St. George slays the azdaja', while English term 'dragon' is almost always translated as 'zmaj'.79.101.236.151 (talk) 02:24, 12 July 2009 (UTC)

Three Heads?

In some fairytales, slavic dragons have not only three, but also six and nine heads. In one such tale, a hero must kill all three. On the first night that the hero stands guard, the three-headed one comes out. On the second night, the six-headed one comes out. On the third night, the nine-headed one comes out. Sometimes, if all heads aren't sliced off at the same time, they grow again or can be put back on. The heads usually come in multiples of three. The Russian version of this article is quite usefull and more detailed on the subject of heads. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Ladywater (talk • contribs) 07:42, 1 January 2007 (UTC).

Left-out information

"A dragon is called zmey in Russian and Bulgarian,"

Actually, a dragon can also be called "drakon" in Russian (дракон). See: ru:Дракон. "Zmey" is an older word, and isn't used as frequently anymore. I think in English, "Snake" or "serpent" can also mean "dragon". Esn (talk) 21:10, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

Traditionally, there is a difference between a Hydra and a Dragon, not to mention, Wyrm, which is often used for Dragon. The article references a variant of the Lernaean Hydra, A classical Dragon, and a 'dragon-like creature, which appears to be a hydra of another sort. Dragons have, of late become a much discussed topic in Fantasy Literature, and much can be read concerning them. It's important to distinguish between the information gleaned from modern sources, and the mythic data from centuries past.[1]--2605:6000:5741:D400:CD35:8D7B:E794:F68F (talk) 16:00, 23 October 2016 (UTC)

Slovene Pozoj (arhaic of "Zmaj")

My grandmother was scaring the shit out of me with word "POZOJ is going to get you if you will not be good " - when i was still a child. I remember i was scared to death - but i never knew what the word in fact represented. Later i've figured out that she was talking about "Zmaj" or "dragon"... It is indeed an unknown origin of the word - but the word has big effect deeply on children psychology...— Preceding unsigned comment added by 188.196.9.75 (talk) 18:30, 9 June 2011

Indeed Pozoj is a "Slovene" (Prekmurian) word. It is used also in several places in North-eastern Croatia (Međimurje, Zagorje) and among Hungarian Slovenes in Porabje. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 109.182.165.168 (talk) 23:01, 9 January 2014 (UTC)

The mention of Pozoj placed by previous contributors was deleted due to lack of reference in [2]. I have restored it, and revised it relying on sources in Emglish.

Now it gives a couple lines on a Croatian version, Čakovec pzoj [3]. Also Ljiljana (1990)[4] referred me to some stories printed in Slovene.[5] --Kiyoweap (talk) 03:27, 15 January 2018 (UTC)

Green color

"is green, walks on two back paws, has small front paws" (this edit‎ by Ghirlandajo) has been around since 2005 but I've commented these since they have never been sourced, and I'm unable to src them at all either.--Kiyoweap (talk) 07:33, 3 January 2018 (UTC)

In Zmei (Russian) I added "Sometimes..with green scales", given in Kravchenko's thesis, but can't tell what the primary src is (the epic ballad or wondertale), so I still see it as tentative info. --Kiyoweap (talk) 00:47, 9 January 2018 (UTC) added the article name 06:51, 9 January 2018 (UTC)

Mavrud

The only thing I can learn about this supposed hero named "Mavrud" defeating the Bulgarian lamia and giving rise to a wine grape of his nameake is that the "connoisseurs" of the wine like to repeat this story. I've removed it (except for See also), and a few lines in the Mavrud wine page where it might belong. --Kiyoweap (talk) 00:55, 9 January 2018 (UTC)

Moscow coat of arms

Something about the St. George on Moscow's coat of arms supposed to represent the Russian crushing the Turks or Mongols underfoot, this kind of thing certainly needs good sourcing and none has ever been provided since it was written 22:43, 27 August 2005 by Ghirlandajo.

I'm seeing this now as a "myth" (piece of fiction manufactured by a novelist), after finding snippets of this article: Brougher, Valentina G. "Myth in Vsevolod Ivanov's The Kremlin", Canadian Slavonic Papers" 35, nos. 3-4 Sept-Dec 1993, 221-234: "The Moscow Kremlin coat of arms is holy: [it depicts] St. George the Triumphant who crushed the serpent (dragon) and tore its pagan Tatar mouth to shreds. Placing the significance of the emblem16 in a historical and religious context that is meaningful to him, the builder..", etc. --Kiyoweap (talk) 01:19, 9 January 2018 (UTC)

I added a quote above.

The two sources entirely in Russian need quoting. My guess is all they state is that the man is St. George vs a dragon (cf. Coat of arms of Moscow article), and the rest of it is synthesis, based on the user picking up on fiction such as written by Vsevolod Ivanov.--Kiyoweap (talk) 06:37, 14 January 2018 (UTC)

Presence of the Romanian Zmeu

Is it justified to deem the Romanian Zmeu a Slavic mythological entity? It seems to differ greatly from the benevolent Balkan Zmei, possesing different attributes and presumably originating in earlier folklore which had syncretized. As far as I can tell, the Romanian Zmeu at most fulfills the role of equivalent to the Ala, with Pre-Slavic Paleo-Balkan elements being presumably at the root of the weather-making legend present in both.These aspects are found in the myth of the Romanian Zmei or Balauri, present in the Scholomance legend partially covered in this article, the latter name being of Daco-Thracian or largely Paleo-Balkan root; *bell- or *ber- "beast, monster". Considering that the Romanians are not a Slavic people, should their folklore be generalized here? -- Trideeglass (talk) 20:25, 22 July 2023 (UTC)